09-10-2007, 12:30 AM
http://www.infidels.org/library/historic..._club.html
( I may have posted a similar thread on the old forum)
Robert G. Ingersoll "The Great Agnostic" was a friend of many Unitarians, each held many common beliefs (especially progressive civil rights) and both shared being considered infidels.
Here are few highlights from the speech -
"I have great respect for the Unitarian Church. I have great respect for the memory of Theodore Parker. I have great respect for every man who has assisted in relieving the heavens of an infinite monster. I have
great respect for every man who has helped to put out the fires of
hell. In other words, I have great respect for every man who has
tried to civilize my race."
"The Unitarian Church has done more than any other church --
and maybe more than all other churches -- to substitute character
for creed, and to say that a man should be judged by his spirit; by
the climate of his heart; by the autumn of his generosity; by the
spring of his hope; that he should be judged by what he does; by
the influence that he exerts, rather than by the mythology he may
believe, And whether there be one God or a million, I am perfectly
satisfied that every duty that devolves upon me is within my reach,
it is something that I can do myself, without the help of anybody
else, either in this world or any other."
" I hope, as devoutly as you, that there is a power somewhere in
this universe that will finally bring everything as it should be.
I take a little consolation in the "perhaps" -- in the guess that
this is only one scene of a great drama, and that when the curtain
rises on the fifth act, if I live that long, I may see the
coherence and the relation of things. But up to the present writing
-- or speaking -- I do not. I do not understand it -- a God that
has life feed on life; every joy in the world born of some agony!
I do not understand why in this world, over the Niagara of cruelty,
should run this ocean of blood. I do not understand it. And, then,
why does not justice always triumph? Why is not innocence a perfect
shield? These are my troubles."
"Suppose a man had control of the atmosphere, knew enough of
the secrets of nature, had read enough in "nature's infinite book
of secrecy" so that he could control the wind and rain; suppose a
man had that power, and suppose that last year he kept the rain
from Russia and did not allow the crops to ripen when hundreds of
thousands were famishing and when little babes were found with
their lips on the breasts of dead mothers! What would you think of
such a man? Now, there is my trouble. If there be a God he
understood this. He knew when he withheld his rain that the famine
would come. He saw the dead mothers, he saw the empty breasts of
death, and he saw the helpless babes. There is my trouble. I am
perfectly frank with you and honest. That is my trouble."
"Now, understand me! I do not say there is no God. I do not
know. As I told you before, I have traveled but very little -- only
in this world."
" Can an infinite being want anything? If
he does and cannot get it, he is not happy. If he does not want
anything, I cannot help him. I am under no obligation to do
anything for anybody who does not need anything and who does not
want anything. Now, there is my trouble. I may be wrong, and I may
get paid for it some time, but that is my trouble."
"I do not see -- admitting that all is true that has been said
about the existence of God -- I do not see what I can do for him;
and I do not see either what he can do for me, judging by what he
has done for others."
"Now, then, what is religion? I say, religion is all here in
this world -- right here -- and that all our duties are right here
to our fellow-men; that the man that builds a home; marries the
girl that he loves; takes good care of her; likes the family; stays
home nights, as a general thing; pays his debts; tries to find out
what he can; gets all the ideas and beautiful things that his mind
will hold; turns a part of his brain into a gallery of fine arts;
has a host of paintings and statues there; then has another niche
devoted to music -- a magnificent dome, filled with winged notes
that rise to glory -- now, the man who does that gets all he can
from the great ones dead; swaps all the thoughts he can with the
ones that are alive; true to the ideal that he has here in his
brain -- he is what I call a religious man, because he makes the
world better, happier; he puts the dimples of joy in the cheeks of
the ones he loves, and he lets the gods run heaven to suit
themselves. And I am not saying that he is right; I do not know."
"This is all the religion that I have; to make somebody else
happier if I can."
"I divide this world into two classes -- the cruel and the
kind; and I think a thousand times more of a kind man than I do of
an intelligent man. I think more of kindness than I do of genius,
I think more of real, good, human nature in that way -- of one who
is willing to lend a helping hand and who goes through the world
with a face that looks as if its owner were willing to answer a
decent question -- I think a thousand times more of that than I do
of being theologically right; because I do not care whether I am
theologically right or not. It is something that is not worth
talking about, because it is something that I never, never, never
shall understand; and every one of you will die and you won't understand it either -- until after you die at any rate. I do not
know what will happen then."
"And if I come into the presence of an infinite, good, and wise being, he will say, "Well, you did the best you could. You did very well, indeed. There is plenty of work for you to do here. Try and get a little higher than
you were before."
( I may have posted a similar thread on the old forum)
Robert G. Ingersoll "The Great Agnostic" was a friend of many Unitarians, each held many common beliefs (especially progressive civil rights) and both shared being considered infidels.
Here are few highlights from the speech -
"I have great respect for the Unitarian Church. I have great respect for the memory of Theodore Parker. I have great respect for every man who has assisted in relieving the heavens of an infinite monster. I have
great respect for every man who has helped to put out the fires of
hell. In other words, I have great respect for every man who has
tried to civilize my race."
"The Unitarian Church has done more than any other church --
and maybe more than all other churches -- to substitute character
for creed, and to say that a man should be judged by his spirit; by
the climate of his heart; by the autumn of his generosity; by the
spring of his hope; that he should be judged by what he does; by
the influence that he exerts, rather than by the mythology he may
believe, And whether there be one God or a million, I am perfectly
satisfied that every duty that devolves upon me is within my reach,
it is something that I can do myself, without the help of anybody
else, either in this world or any other."
" I hope, as devoutly as you, that there is a power somewhere in
this universe that will finally bring everything as it should be.
I take a little consolation in the "perhaps" -- in the guess that
this is only one scene of a great drama, and that when the curtain
rises on the fifth act, if I live that long, I may see the
coherence and the relation of things. But up to the present writing
-- or speaking -- I do not. I do not understand it -- a God that
has life feed on life; every joy in the world born of some agony!
I do not understand why in this world, over the Niagara of cruelty,
should run this ocean of blood. I do not understand it. And, then,
why does not justice always triumph? Why is not innocence a perfect
shield? These are my troubles."
"Suppose a man had control of the atmosphere, knew enough of
the secrets of nature, had read enough in "nature's infinite book
of secrecy" so that he could control the wind and rain; suppose a
man had that power, and suppose that last year he kept the rain
from Russia and did not allow the crops to ripen when hundreds of
thousands were famishing and when little babes were found with
their lips on the breasts of dead mothers! What would you think of
such a man? Now, there is my trouble. If there be a God he
understood this. He knew when he withheld his rain that the famine
would come. He saw the dead mothers, he saw the empty breasts of
death, and he saw the helpless babes. There is my trouble. I am
perfectly frank with you and honest. That is my trouble."
"Now, understand me! I do not say there is no God. I do not
know. As I told you before, I have traveled but very little -- only
in this world."
" Can an infinite being want anything? If
he does and cannot get it, he is not happy. If he does not want
anything, I cannot help him. I am under no obligation to do
anything for anybody who does not need anything and who does not
want anything. Now, there is my trouble. I may be wrong, and I may
get paid for it some time, but that is my trouble."
"I do not see -- admitting that all is true that has been said
about the existence of God -- I do not see what I can do for him;
and I do not see either what he can do for me, judging by what he
has done for others."
"Now, then, what is religion? I say, religion is all here in
this world -- right here -- and that all our duties are right here
to our fellow-men; that the man that builds a home; marries the
girl that he loves; takes good care of her; likes the family; stays
home nights, as a general thing; pays his debts; tries to find out
what he can; gets all the ideas and beautiful things that his mind
will hold; turns a part of his brain into a gallery of fine arts;
has a host of paintings and statues there; then has another niche
devoted to music -- a magnificent dome, filled with winged notes
that rise to glory -- now, the man who does that gets all he can
from the great ones dead; swaps all the thoughts he can with the
ones that are alive; true to the ideal that he has here in his
brain -- he is what I call a religious man, because he makes the
world better, happier; he puts the dimples of joy in the cheeks of
the ones he loves, and he lets the gods run heaven to suit
themselves. And I am not saying that he is right; I do not know."
"This is all the religion that I have; to make somebody else
happier if I can."
"I divide this world into two classes -- the cruel and the
kind; and I think a thousand times more of a kind man than I do of
an intelligent man. I think more of kindness than I do of genius,
I think more of real, good, human nature in that way -- of one who
is willing to lend a helping hand and who goes through the world
with a face that looks as if its owner were willing to answer a
decent question -- I think a thousand times more of that than I do
of being theologically right; because I do not care whether I am
theologically right or not. It is something that is not worth
talking about, because it is something that I never, never, never
shall understand; and every one of you will die and you won't understand it either -- until after you die at any rate. I do not
know what will happen then."
"And if I come into the presence of an infinite, good, and wise being, he will say, "Well, you did the best you could. You did very well, indeed. There is plenty of work for you to do here. Try and get a little higher than
you were before."