American Unitarian Conference Forum

Just flipped through this book tonight at Barnes & Noble. Edited by Marcus Borg the book compares similar sayings of Jesus and Buddha, as well as briefly comparing what their followers though of them. The similarities are...well, let's say, almost spooky. In some cases the parallel sayings are literally almost word for word, in others the concepts are essentially identical. I continue to deeply admire Borg, and I feel this book should be mandatory reading both for those who insist on limited truth and those who are relativists. This book could easily dismiss both claims.

This brings to mind a controversial hypothesis that there was more Buddhist influence in the near East than previously known or admitted. The authors Elmar Gruber and Holger Kersten wrote a book called: "The Original Jesus: The Buddhist Sources of Christianity" and it details the history of missionary contacts (260-218 BCE) generated by Asoka The Great (Indian emperor) and the Near East with impact seen in the Theraputae....> Essenes > Jesus etc. See also
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashoka....that led to the Dharma being introduced to Hellenistic Greece - Antiochus II Theos of Seleucid Empire, Ptolemy II - Ptelmaic Egypt, Antigonus Gonatas of Macedon, Magas of Cyrene - Libya, Alexander II of Epirus - Greece and Albania etc. As noted in the article...his Edicts mention Hellenistic kings as converts...though it has not been corroberated. He also exchanged ambassadors with the various Greek kings. Origen made an odd statement about Britain "The island (Britain) has long been predisposed to it (Christianity) through the doctrines of the Druids and Buddhists, who had already inculcated the doctrine of the unity of the Godhead."
— Origen, Commentary on Ezekiel[10]

Wiki article - "Origen himself seems to have been a proponent of the doctrine of rebirth and reincarnation[11] The doctrines of Origen were rejected by a narrow margin at the First Council of Nicaea in 325."

Like most such things....proof will never be made...even if documents were found they would be dismissed or otherwise claimed to be forgeries by those with vested interests...but, some parallels are just too intriguing to ignore. Either certain ideas and sayings have a more universal source...or they are all independently pronounced...which is more likely?

I have heard about alleged Buddhist influences in Christianity. Hmmm...

Maybe the universal source and independent production are not in conflict. If independent inquires can lead to the same place then this speaks strongly for the ability to search freely and the broadness of truth while rejecting relativism. Whethere there was a connection somewhere or Siddhartha and Jesus simply had their own experiences they both seemed to get many of the same truths.

To be honest....you have to go back to Hinduism...Zoroastrianism and others. I guess this illustrates what has been said about many streams, one river:

"one river of truth, but many streams falling into it." "This, said Clement of Alexandria (150?-2150?), is perennially the vision of the Christian scholar, man's mind, with its multiple ways of reaching truth, fulfilled by a river of truth proceeding directly from God." (http://archives.nd.edu/ward/ward13.htm)

Interesting...again, from Wiki - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clement_of_Alexandria
"He united Greek philosophical traditions with Christian doctrine and valued gnosis that with communion for all people could be held by common Christians."
Of course, the later church considered some of his teachings erroneous and he was removed from the list of saints....ahhh politics.

http://www.hypotyposeis.org/weblog/2007/...dhism.html

He also said: "Among the Indians are some who follow the precepts of Buddha, whom for his extraordinary sanctity they have honored as a god." (tr. John Ferguson).
On this passage, John Ferguson, Clement of Alexandria: Stromateis Books 1-3 (Fathers of the Church 85; Washington, D.C.: CUA, 1991), 76, n.338, notes:

The reference to Buddha is exceptionally interesting: Pantaenus [Clement’s predecessor in Alexandra] may have travelled in the East. But the veneration of the Buddha does not give him the title of a god, although he is the Lord.

According to Eusebius, Hist. eccl. 5.10.2-3, when Pantaenus traveled to the East, he found an old copy of Matthew:

... One of these was Pantaenus, and it is said that he went to the Indians, and the tradition is that he found there that among some of those there who had known Christ the Gospel according to Matthew had preceded his coming; for Bartholomew, one of the apostles, had preached to them and had left them the writing of Matthew in Hebrew letters, which was preserved until the time mentioned. (tr. Kirsopp Lake)

The identity of this find remains obscure."

And...another who has used the metaphor...just a Google find:

"...Richard Foster is one person who has popularised it. It is the image of streams. Spirituality is like a river in which many streams - or traditions - mix and mingle and flow together."
(http://www.carey.ac.nz/pauls_blog/2007/0...banks.html)

Also - http://euangelizomai.blogspot.com/2007/0...dhism.html

Euangelion

A Post-Postmodern Blog on New Testament Studies, Christian Origins, and Following Jesus.
Wednesday, April 04, 2007
Early Christianity and Buddhism
posted by Michael F. Bird at 8:45 AM

"Clement of Alexandria recognized the influence of Bactrian Buddhists (Sramanas) and Indian Gymnosophists on Greek thought: "Thus philosophy, a thing of the highest utility, flourished in antiquity among the barbarians, shedding its light over the nations. And afterwards it came to Greece. First in its ranks were the prophets of the Egyptians; and the Chaldeans among the Assyrians; and the Druids among the Gauls; and the Sramanas among the Bactrians ("Σαρμαναίοι Βάκτρων"); and the philosophers of the Celts; and the Magi of the Persians, who foretold the Saviour's birth, and came into the land of Judaea guided by a star. The Indian gymnosophists are also in the number, and the other barbarian philosophers. And of these there are two classes, some of them called Sramanas ("Σαρμάναι"), and others Brahmins ("Βραφμαναι")." (Strom 1.15)."

"Hippolytus knew of the Indian Brahmins and includes their tradition among the various sources of heresy: “There is . . . among the Indians a heresy of those who philosophize among the Brahmins, who live a self-sufficient life, abstaining from (eating) living creatures and all cooked food … They say that God is light, not like the light one sees, nor like the sun nor fire, but to them God is discourse, not that which finds expression in articulate sounds, but that of knowledge through which the secret mysteries of nature are perceived by the wise” (Adv. Haer)."

"Scythianus was an Alexandrian religious teacher who visited India around 50 CE. He is mentioned by several Christian writers of the 3rd and 4th centuries CE, including Cyril of Jerusalem, Hippolytus and Epiphanius. Cyril of Jerusalem says this of his pupil Terebinthus: “But Terebinthus, his disciple in this wicked error, inherited his money and books and heresy, and came to Palestine, and becoming known and condemned in Judaea he resolved to pass into Persia: but lest he should be recognised there also by his name he changed it and called himself Buddas." (Catechetical Lecture 6.23)"

Several years ago I posted a paper on aucchat about the life of Jesus from a non-Christian point of view. This paper gave the places that he traveled to, to receive his education and training. It is about 23 pages. You might find it an interesting read.

I think it is still the AUC Chat archives.  I will find it and e-mail it to you.

Nope. The old archives did not save it. It was in an attachment. Only the cover message is there. Looked for the old forum archive but it is gone.

I will have to look for a hard copy and try to rescan it.

With love,

Rev Dorris

I'm also something of a Marcus Borg enthusiast, and agree that Jesus and the Buddha sound alike in many instances. Christian-Buddhist dialogue often results in a feeling of commonality among participants.

Some of us who cherish the Unitarian (and in many cases also the Universalist) tradition emphasize the importance of a theistic affirmation. Most of my Buddhist friends and acquaintances have a nontheist identity, or at least lack a monotheist orientation. (Many Buddhists believe in gods but not in God.) Now, I'm not one to try to persuade anyone to take a theist pledge, even though I often try to make the case for theism, often to people who aren't much interested (like UUs).

Some might argue that Buddhists are theists, of a sort, even though their God concept is very different from mine. (Some have also taken the view that God is the atheism of the atheist, among other things.) How do we relate to UU or Unitarian Buddhists?

John

Buddhism is very much influenced by the existing culture and religion into which it is introduced in any given place where it is practiced. In Japan, for example, rather than compete with the existing Shinto faith, Buddhists simply made Shinto deities into bodhisattvas and the Shinto faith reciprocated by making Buddhist entities into kami.

So to me the whole "theist vs. non-theist" argument in Buddhism is a little muddled and really depends on a lot of debate that frankly the common believer in most Buddhist societies isn't going to bother with; followers of sects devoted to Amida Buddha rely on him for (a type of) salvation in a way similar to the Christian reliance on Christ for salvation. Throughout Japan there are small stones dedicated as

As for how we relate to UU Buddhists, I guess as an organization we don't necessarily. As individuals of course all are free to relate to others as one wishes. I think Unitarianism can and in my practice certainly does benefit from Buddhist wisdom and insight, but to combine the two religions into one is a bad idea, in my opinion. Ironically, I think that Buddhist ideas of Buddhas, Bodhisatvvas and Buddhist deities are far more advanced than some theistic renditions of God (Buddha as compassionate, wise, loving versus ideas of God as wrathful and petty).

I think Unitarians could benefit from using some of the Buddhist meditation practices...although modified for our generally theistic understanding. The adoption of various practices...be it meditation or centering prayer....can add a missing element to Unitarianism. This is something I need to explore in more detail.