American Unitarian Conference Forum

http://www.episcopalcafe.com/thesoul/dai...n_one.html

"Three in one

Daily Reading for May 18 • Trinity Sunday

The feast of the Holy Trinity is unique to the Anglican communion. Originating in Spain in the early Middle Ages, spreading through the Gallican church in France, it survived only in England. This festival of the triune God is dedicated not to the commemoration of an event such as Christmas and Easter, nor to a person such as a saint, but to a theological doctrine. Following the festival of the Holy Spirit, Trinity Sunday is logically dedicated to the task of pulling together the total experience of the Christian with the God whom he worships and adores.

There are many difficulties involved in the traditional doctrine of the Trinity. The arguments of the Church fathers of Nicea as to how one almighty God could be divided into three separate and distinct persons and yet retain his oneness seems sadly irrelevant to the unphilosophical mind. It is inconceivable to us that fellow Christians could have fought so bitterly over the precise meanings of the word, and then come up with the seeming contradictions of three in one and one in three. . . .

Whether this Holy Spirit, this God within, proceeds from the Father or the Son is relatively unimportant. For me this God who, at times, moves me to deep awe and wonder at the power and beauty of creation, speaks to my human need through Jesus Christ, or brings me suddenly to life, seemingly from within my own mind and soul or in a worshiping group of which I am a part, is one God, known in various ways, experienced in differing situations. For purposes of clarification of my thinking or description of my experience, it is useful to call him Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. But he is the same no matter how I try to describe him. He is a great God—too great for any human mind to explain or classify completely. But he is not too great to worship and adore as Lord and giver of life. This is the heart of Christian faith, the cause of our devotion, and the goal of all our striving."

From “Three In One—One In Three” in Go Into the City: Sermons for a Strenuous Age by John Compton Leffler (Madrona Publishers, 1986)."


>>  So, despite the difficulty of the concept...it persists...but remains a key division between Unitarians and Trinitarians...too bad.

More impossible to follow apologetics:

http://www.carm.org/doctrine/trinity.htm

"..God is a trinity of persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Father is not the same person as the Son; the Son is not the same person as the Holy Spirit; and the Holy Spirit is not the same person as Father.  They are not three gods and not three beings.  They are three distinct persons; yet, they are all the one God.  Each has a will, can speak, can love, etc., and these are demonstrations of personhood.  They are in absolute perfect harmony consisting of one substance. They are coeternal, coequal, and copowerful. If any one of the three were removed, there would be no God"

Or...

"..Trinitarianism is monotheistic by definition and those who claim it is polytheistic demonstrate a lack of understanding of what it really is.
The Trinity
God is three persons
Each person is divine
There is only one God.

      Many theologians admit that the term "person" is not a perfect word to describe the three individual aspects/foci found in God.   When we normally use the word person, we understand it to mean physical individuals who exist as separate beings from other individuals.  But in God there are not three entities, nor three beings.  God, is a trinity of persons consisting of one substance and one essence.  God is numerically one. Yet, within the single divine essence are three individual subsistences that we call persons.
Each of the three persons is completely divine in nature though each is not the totality of the Godhead.
Each of the three persons is not the other two persons.
Each of the three persons is related to the other two, but are distinct from them..."

>> Ok....sure...whatever you say...."a lack of understanding"...and an inability to explain it too!

Another site:

http://www.godweb.org/trinity.htm

"Bottom line: While rational explanations of it have never been fully satisfying, and while confusion and sometimes controversy about the doctrine continue, Christians persist in thinking of God as being know to them in three forms: As powerful Creator, as a redeeming and loving person, Jesus Christ, and as a living and active presence in their lives which could be nothing less than Spirit Divine. Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Or in a more contemporary paraphrase: God, the Creator, Redeemer, and Sustainer of all."

>> Ok, a bit of a cop out..but an honest one....heretical.

Finally -

http://www.apologeticsindex.org/t01.html

"...I am the first to acknowledge that this doctrine is unfathomable in reality, and describable only in concept. We must remember that we are a finite people that serve an infinite God. It is impossible for the finite to comprehend the infinite completely. But each of these characteristics of God/Jesus is clearly revealed both in scripture and tradition. Is it so hard for us, the finite, to acknowledge that we might not be able to understand all there is to know about God? Or how it might not be possible to describe the Holy Trinity within our finite understanding of reality? Are we so puffed up as to question what God has revealed to us?

Understand this, I do not believe it is necessary to confess the Trinitarian nature of God in order to believe the gospel in faith. We can be saved without a clear concept of the trinity. If the basic considerations of these doctrines were not true, however, then our redemption would not be possible, and the Gospel of Jesus Christ would be a lie..."

>> Ok, a little honesty...despair?

I was invited to attend a Trinity Sunday Sermon yesterday so that I could offer my comments on the content of the sermon at the end of the service.  I told the minister that if all I heard was the first half of the sermon, I would not have come back to his church, but I fully agreed with the last half on the different ways that God relates to mankind and the various ways that mankind has used to relate to God.

The minister, with more than 50 years in the pulpit, and several other members of the church agreed to take a 10 question "yes or no" survey.  Each of them was able to answer all the questions "yes".  The were a little surprised, when I told them that they were really "Unitarian" despite the denominational label that they use.

I will be sending them the survey in an e-mail, so that they can share it with their families and friends.

With love,

Rev Dorris
Unitarian Community

So you gave this quiz:

Are you a Unitarian?

Take this simple Yes or No survey of your beliefs:

1. Do you believe there is One God or Supreme Being over all others?

2. Do you believe there are many acceptable but different paths or ways to worship and relate to this One God?

3. Do you believe that as humankind develops more things are revealed to increase our understanding?

4. Do you believe that humanity is all part of one family?

5. Do you believe in supporting humanitarian efforts?

6. Do you believe we should work for the good of our communities?

7. Do you believe individuals have the right to question what they are told to believe?

8. Do you believe life is a journey of growth and learning?

9. Do you believe individuals are responsible for their actions?

10. Do you believe in sharing what you have learned and in promoting love, harmony, and peace?

Q:
Did the minister make the trinity any more comprehensible without deviating into actual error / heresy?  
Was he merely rotely repeating the doctrine?
Did the congregation appear to really understand the doctrine or was it a glazed eye look?\

The problem is that most denominations make the doctrine a test of faith....not just an historic understanding.

"Q:
Did the minister make the trinity any more comprehensible without deviating into actual error / heresy?
Was he merely rotely repeating the doctrine?
Did the congregation appear to really understand the doctrine or was it a glazed eye look?\

The problem is that most denominations make the doctrine a test of faith....not just an historic understanding."

The minister said the first half of the sermon was merely restating the history of the trinity as reflected in the various councils that affirmed it. He tried to use some examples to explain the trinity but they did not clear up the situation. He said this, his church does not make the various creeds mandatory on its members but just part of the history. The denomination however does use them as an article of faith for those who wish to be members. A puzzling situation.

When I told the minister that he was a Unitarian, there were a lot of smiles from the members of the congregation.

With love,

Rev Dorris